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Gramophone專訪Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/Interviews_detail.asp?id=2402
The Song and the Singer
For many he is the greatest Lieder singer of the 20th century. As he
turns 80, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau reflects on his long career with Jon
Tolansky
'My mother loved to go to recitals, and one day she took me to a whole
concert of Reger songs in the Beethoven-Saal in Berlin with the contralto
Emmy Leisner. I remember a point during the programme when I said to
myself: I also want to do this.' That impulse by a youthful Dietrich
Fischer-Dieskau gave the world an artist who many would claim to be the
greatest song interpreter of all time. Now, as he celebrates his 80th
birthday, the great German baritone recalls that turning point in his life.
'I was very moved, and Mme Leisner even noticed me in the front row
looking quite glowing. Afterwards my mother and I went to see her and she
said “You must become a singer - but you must not come to me, you must
have a male teacher”. She recommended I go to Georg A Walter so I began
to have singing lessons with him. I stayed with him for about a year, but
I always wanted to find out much more about the really fundamental techniques
of singing, so in 1943 I went to Hermann Weissenborn, and he was by far
the most important and in fact really the only teacher I ever had. His
guidance was invaluable, most especially in respect of melodic facility
and phrasing, and I continued to study with him right up until his death
in 1959.'
In January 1943, not long before Fischer-Dieskau started lessons with
Weissenborn, he had already given his first performance of Schubert's
Winterreise, a particularly enormous challenge for a 17-year-old. And
just five years later this song-cycle was to be one of two major catalysts
in his early rise to fame. After being called up by the German army and
becoming a prisoner of war with the Americans in Italy, it was one of the
first works he performed for the RIAS radio station in American-occupied
West Berlin. He had already made a strong impression giving recitals in
the prisoner-of-war camp, from which he had recently been released; in
January 1948 his broadcast of Winterreise was heard far and wide and
created a major reaction - and not only in Germany (it can still be
heard today, as a tape was finally issued on CD some years ago on the
Archipel label).
Before long, word was around that a remarkable new baritone was at large.
Later that year the influential stage director and manager of all of West
Berlin's opera houses, Heinz Tietjen, engaged him to sing Posa in Verdi's
Don Carlo at the Berlin Stadtische Oper. That became the second catalyst
in accelerating his rise to major fame. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau was soon
celebrated for the bloom, radiance and great expressiveness of his voice,
his outstanding command of legato line and the dramatic power of his
interpretations. The following year, 1949, he began what was to become
one of the most voluminous and comprehensive recording careers of any
classical artist.
In a singing career spanning 45 years, from 1948 to 1993, Fischer-Dieskau's
impeccable technique, flawless intonation and perfection of tone production
were merely the conduits for the remarkable range of expression, colour and
feeling he brought to his vast repertoire of nearly 3000 songs, hundreds of
cantatas and oratorios and more than 100 operatic roles. In Lieder
particularly, his dramatic incisiveness, lyrical expressiveness, legato
phrasing and vivid projection of words have been yardsticks for two
generations of singers after him. In opera, his searching intellect
and imposing presence made him the choice of directors such as Luchino
Visconti, Carl Ebert, August Everding, Gunther Rennert and Jean-Pierre
Ponelle, and conductors such as Herbert von Karajan, Leonard Bernstein,
Georg Solti, Karl Bohm and Carlos Kleiber. In music of his own time, his
vocal mastery and artistic imagination especially inspired composers such
as Stravinsky, Henze, Reimann and Britten, who invited him to sing in the
world premiere of his War Requiem. And in later years his meticulous
musicianship and deep erudition increasingly impressed symphony orchestras
as he developed a new career as a conductor.
His 80th birthday celebrations - the actual anniversary fell on May 28 - see
offerings from DG, EMI, Orfeo, TDK, INA Memoire and Profil which range back
in time from a new set of melodramas by Schumann, Liszt, Strauss and Ullmann
with Fischer-Dieskau as narrator to a reissue of his first studio recording,
Brahms's Four Serious Songs, made in 1949, and included as part of a nine-CD
retrospective in DG's Original Masters series. (That work by Brahms was also
the first music Fischer-Dieskau sang in public when he was just 16 years old,
by which time he had most definitely decided he had to be a professional
singer.)
It was in the Lieder of Schubert and Schumann particularly that Fischer-
Dieskau achieved some of his earliest international acclaim. He brought them
alive with theatrical characterisation and a poetic beauty that seemed to
flow effortlessly from his remarkable breath control and his meticulous
projection of words. In the dramatic songs he could create frightening
suspense with the controlled dynamic reserve in his voice, creating lines
that seamlessly grew from the quietest whisper to intense declamation,
while in the lyrical songs he created a rapt and tranquil atmosphere with
the sustained tenderness of his singing. Winterreise made an especially
remarkable impression when his first studio recording was released in 1955.
Many people marvelled that someone so young - he was just 30 - could perform
with such depth and psychological power. However, for Fischer-Dieskau it
was natural and appropriate to sing this music at that early age.
'Schubert himself was, of course, not an old man when he composed Winterreise,
so I don't think the music is associated with old age in any way. If you are
convinced by the sounds you evoke when you sit at the piano and play through
the score - even without the voice, which I did first before I started to
sing the music - you are deeply affected, whatever age you are. And then when
you come to the poems, it is a young man who is speaking. Also, I must say I
do not feel you need necessarily have had the same experience yourself to
understand Winterreise. I am sure Schubert himself didn't suffer everything
he describes in the cycle. Yes, he was very much in love with a girl he
wasn't able to marry because her parents wanted her to have a wealthy
husband, and this pained him of course, but I feel he wrote Winterreise
because he was so profoundly affected by Mueller's poems rather than because
of anything in his own life.'
Including a few unofficial CDs, there are at least nine recordings of
Winterreise by Fischer-Dieskau in the catalogue, with a couple more emerging
from the archives this year. They span most of his singing career - proof
that he did in fact perform Winterreise when he was no longer young, but
also that he constantly felt compelled to revisit the work. 'If I were
able to perform it now, I would right away attempt to interpret it yet again.
The music is so rich and so unreachable in a way that you can encircle the
work as often as you want - you will never reach the centre. I tried to do
so - sometimes I got a little closer to the essence of the work, but not
very often and never completely.'
A disarming statement from a legendary interpreter of Winterreise! His
performances of this and all the Lieder of Schubert have exerted a striking
influence on other singers and also accompanists from the time of his own
generation up to the present, as one of the world's foremost accompanists,
Graham Johnson, observes: 'He has so dominated the entire performing life
of my generation, always having been there at the summit, from the time I
began to think about Lieder as a possibility in my work until now. He is
by nature an encyclopaedist, and he placed before us fine performances
that immediately bent our ears over the comprehensive Lieder oeuvre of a
wide range of composers - all Schubert, all Schumann, all Brahms, all Wolf.
He made us aware that one had this huge treasure-trove of material, and he
went through it with the type of zeal of a Domesda Book-chronicler, bringing
to it his intelligence, his musicality and his desire to paint a huge,
overall, historical picture.'
The young German baritone Christian Gerhaher is one of today's singers who
acknowledges Fischer-Dieskau's vital influence. Virtually two generations
down the line, he of course heard his famous recordings, but he also came
face to face with him in some masterclasses. His admiration is boundless.
'He was the one who elevated Lieder singing into a kind of vocal chamber
music. And the sheer scale of his achievement is extraordinary. He made
so many recordings, and even if some of the later ones were a bit mannered,
most were technically so good and beautiful that he was altogether
outstanding. I do not think anyone will reach the amount of work he did
in his life - it would be a lifetime's work just to attempt to match it.'
That achievement has historical connotations, too. Not only were there the
groundbreaking editions of virtually the complete Lieder of Schubert,
Schumann, Brahms and Wolf, there were also forays into the music of Mahler
at a time when his work was widely held to be recherch? When he proposed
to Wilhelm Furtwangler, who was a deeply valued mentor and considerable
artistic influence on him in his early years, that they perform the Lieder
eines fahrenden Gesellen, he had to talk the great conductor into it. 'He
was quite shocked at first because he did not like Mahler at all. Although
he had conducted the Wayfarer songs much earlier, and even the Third and
Fourth Symphonies on one or two occasions, he always said "Maybe the first
two movements of the First Symphony, but after that I cannot?" In due course
he did accept my suggestion and we performed them with the Vienna
Philharmonic at Salzburg in 1951 and later recorded them with the
Philharmonia Orchestra. At that time he was far from being alone in his
aversion to Mahler - there were many people who could not appreciate him
one bit. I was really the first singer to perform complete Mahler Lieder
programmes and I was one of the few people who sang most of the orchestral
songs in those days.'
Fischer-Dieskau went on to record most of the Mahler songs with some of the
greatest conductors of the day, including Barenboim, Bernstein, Bohm,
Kubelik, Sawallisch and Szell, and on occasion with Barenboim, Bernstein
and Sawallisch as piano accompanists. Viewing them as a whole just for now,
one of the most remarkable attributes is the immense range of vocal, dynamic
and expressive contrasts - from the intimate, delicate simplicity of 'Ich
atmet einen linden Duft' in the Ruckert-Lieder, conducted by Bohm to the
macabre, demonic irony of 'Revelge' in the Knaben Wunderhorn songs, in the
classic version conducted by George Szell.
It was this kind of masterly projection of the text's atmosphere, as well as
its meaning, that so strongly appealed to a composer who himself was greatly
influenced by Mahler: for many years Fischer-Dieskau was one of Benjamin
Britten's favourite artists, and the composer invited him to sing the
baritone part in the world premiere (and subsequent recording) of the
War Requiem. The premiere in Coventry Cathedral in 1962 was the first time
they met, and subsequently they performed together on many memorable
occasions, interpreting a wide range of composers' works with Britten both
as conductor and pianist. 'His approach to conducting and playing the piano
was so different. There was somehow more fantasy when he played the piano
but, on the other hand, he absolutely achieved his intention with the
orchestra. I have never forgotten how he did this with Schumann's Scenes
from Faust, a very difficult work to conduct. I have sung this work very
often since but I have never performed it again in the way I did with Britten
conducting. This love he brought to everything he did was of a very special,
rare quality. I can still see him holding up the score of the Scenes from
Faust to the audience as they were raving at the end of the performance,
as though saying “Look at this - Schumann!”.'
Britten played the piano for Fischer-Dieskau when they performed and
recorded the Songs and Proverbs of William Blake, which the composer wrote
for him in 1965, shortly after the death of the baritone's first wife,
Irmgard Poppen. He was one of Fischer-Diesaku's favourite accompanists,
along with Gerald Moore, Jorg Demus, Karl Engel and Hartmut Holl, as well
as the aforementioned conductors. Holl accompanied him in a recording of
rarely performed songs by Grieg, made in 1984 when Fischer-Dieskau was 59
and still displaying an extraordinary range of expression, dynamics and
colour. He magically captured the Nordic atmosphere and poignant intimacy
that are the essence of Grieg, even in these settings of predominantly
German texts. 'Grieg himself had a very fine feeling for the German
language, so it was natural for him to set these poems in his own, personal
musical style. I love the simplicity of these songs - like most of what he
wrote they are very close to the uncomplicated folkloric element that was
very strong in him. There are, of course, some exceptions when he imitates
Wagner's Valkyrie sonorities; in fact, some of the Heine songs are a little
thicker in texture, really mixing up many accompanying voices. But most of t
he time he is wonderfully clear and writes in his own unmistakably personal
way.'
Two years after recording the Grieg songs, Hartmut Holl again accompanied
Fischer-Dieskau in a recording of rarely performed songs by Wolf, originally
made for Claves and subsequently licensed to Brilliant Classics. They are a
fascinating addendum to his almost exhaustive Wolf recordings with Daniel
Barenboim, where the two create an often spellbinding atmosphere in songs
that can still sound extraordinarily novel and strange even today. Fischer-
Dieskau recognises Wagner's influence in Wolf's life, but insists it is
minimal in his music. 'He would not have liked to have been called a
Wagnerian at all. He admired Wagner above all, but I think he found his own
language by obeying the melody he heard in the words themselves, as opposed
to letting the voices accompany the thematic material in the orchestra, as
Wagner did. It was the other way round from Wagner - in the words he found
the melody, in a way like Schubert really, who found the melody after
reading the words many times, although of course Wolf's declamatory language
is so different. And when he wrote his own opera, Der Corregidor, this was
very much the same procedure.'
Der Corregidor is a work Fischer-Dieskau has championed in an extensive
operatic repertoire that ranges from Mozart's Le nozze di Figaro and Don
Giovanni up to Reimann's Lear and Messiaen's Saint Frandois d'Assise. He
was maybe a more controversial artist in opera than in Lieder but that is
not meant as a pejorative observation: on the contrary, if he had his
critics he nevertheless offered interpretations that could often be
challengingly thought-provoking and dramatically powerful.
One of his most famous and acclaimed stage roles was Hans Sachs in Die
Meistersinger von Nurnberg, in which he particularly stressed a disturbed
element in the role, in contrast to the general ambience of the work.
'Sachs is a very complex character. There is a constant juxtaposition of
opposites in him: the sarcasm and wit in the sharp remarks he makes so much
of the time, and then so much melancholy as he keeps thinking about the
world and all the evil things that are there - “Wahn, wahn, uberall wahn!”
The combination of all this makes him almost a sinister figure. But on the
other hand, he has sufficient humour to enable him to be above all the
things and people that upset him so much. After all, everyone admires him
so much because he has such a dignity and philosophy. So he is very
complicated, with many colours - most of the time I hear Sachs sung with
thick tone all the way through so that there is no feeling of
characterisation, which is so important. Certainly Wagner conveyed this
feeling when he read just the words of this opera for audiences, which he
did sometimes.'
Fischer-Dieskau was Georg Solti's and Decca's choice as Gunther in the
famous 'Golden Ring' recording and, a few years later, Herbert von Karajan
invited him to sing Wotan in Das Rheingold in his recording of the work.
Karajan's at times almost chamber-opera approach to The Ring provoked
mixed reactions initially, but in time it became an influential reading,
which Pierre Boulez among other Wagnerians has acknowledged. Karajan knew
precisely how to satisfy himself with his casting, and his choice of Fis
cher-Dieskau as a lyrical but authoritative Wotan ideally suited his concept
of the role. There was a rapport between the two artists.
'He came to my house and we had a long piano rehearsal of Wotan together. He
did not say very much, but the few sentences he spoke were enough for me to
know just what he wanted. He conveyed so much with his conducting that he
did not need to say very much - you saw what he did and you immediately
understood his intentions.'
Another of Fischer-Dieskau's most celebrated operatic roles in the German-
language repertoire was Mandryka in Richard Strauss's Arabella, with which
he made his Covent Garden debut in 1965 (an 80th-birthday DVD release from
DG includes four extracts from a performance in Munich, appearing on video
for the first time). He was also famed for his powerful although sometimes
more controversial interpretations in some of Verdi's greatest baritone
roles. He himself has said that it is not easy for a German singer to
perform opera in Italian, or for that matter French, and there are some
who have expressed reservations about his Verdi performances. But the
audience at La Scala loved his Rigoletto and there are many who have been
deeply affected by his searching interpretations in Italian and several
other non-Germanic operas. Baritone Anthony Michaels-Moore feels that
Fischer-Dieskau's Iago in Verdi's Otello is especially illuminating.
'The recording he made with Sir John Barbirolli is very interesting indeed.
It may not be the most authentic Italian sound, but the musical intelligence
that he brings to the role really does make it live in ways that I have not
experienced in other interpretations.'
In that recording of Otello, with James McCracken in the title-role and
Gwyneth Jones as Desdemona, Fischer-Dieskau and the entire cast were
undoubtedly affected by some of Sir John Barbirolli's spacious tempi,
which are particularly slow in Iago's fabricated account to Otello in Act
2 of Cassio calling out Desdemona's name in his sleep, 'Era la notte'.
Notwithstanding that, Fischer-Dieskau's Iago is remarkably effective here,
meticulously observing Verdi's markings. 'It has to be whispered and sung
at the same time,' Fischer-Dieskau says. 'It has a completely convincing
influence on Otello, and yet at the same time Iago is expressing his own
secret feelings about Desdemona. You have to combine all this in one short
piece and perform as quietly as possible - just as Verdi has indicated.' A
challenging idea about Iago's private feelings, and certainly the almost
hauntingly dreamy way that Fischer-Dieskau sings this dramatically crucial
aria is psychologically striking and entirely convincing.
'Fischer-Dieskau, in everything he did, had something to say and contribute
to the general picture,' Graham Johnson says. 'For instance, he recorded
Poulenc's Le bal masque, and it's very interesting indeed - it may not be
definitive in the way that Pierre Bernac's performance with the composer is,
but I feel that be it Poulenc, Verdi or whoever, the repertoire is bigger
than just its authentic roots and too big to avoid the contribution that
Fischer-Dieskau has made. The curiosity and passion for music that
surrounded the margins of his central, German-speaking repertoire, such as
Faure or Ravel, in a sense contributed to his interpretation of his main
work - for instance, the opening song of Berg's Seven Early Songs has a
Debussian texture, and Fischer-Dieskau even wrote a book about Debussy.
Of course, an artist who is born and bred in the country of a composer's
origin has an authority that is difficult for people who have come from
outside that environment to grasp immediately, but great art does not belong
to any one nation, and it is wonderful that Fischer-Dieskau took such
trouble with such a wide range of repertoire.'
Fischer-Dieskau's curiosity and passion certainly covered an exceptionally
wide geographical and ethnic gamut. He took immense trouble to familiarise
himself with the colours and musical speech-language of Hungary when he
took on the title-role in Bartok's masterpiece, Duke Bluebeard's Castle,
an opera he deeply admires.
'In a way it is almost an expressionistic work, even though it was composed
before the time of expressionism as we know it, mixed with so many elements
of folk music that when you interpret it you have to know exactly how the
Hungarians sing their songs, how they perform with all their many subtle
rubati - and if you don't do that, the piece is lost. I remember so well
when Antal Dorati conducted Bluebeard in Paris, he came to me and was very
concerned to explain all the many places where there is rubato, and he was
really quite happy that I knew it and could do it for him. As regards both
Bluebeard and Judith, with their feelings of mistrust and guilt, I sometimes
think of Bartok's attitude to his second wife when they had a contract
before they went to marry and she had to sign “I will not think of another
man, I will not say a word against this marriage” and so on - like a sick
kind of dictatorship born out of such insecurity. Maybe there is a
subconscious, unintentional autobiographical element in Bluebeard there.
Who knows?'
Singing Judith on Fischer-Dieskau's second recording of Duke Bluebeard's
Castle, made in 1979, is his fourth wife, the superb soprano Julia Varady,
with whom, in stark contrast to Bluebeard and Judith, he is most profoundly
and devotedly happy. As well as having performed together many times on the
operatic stage, they have successfully collaborated from time to time when
Fischer-Dieskau has accompanied her as a conductor. Some recordings of
their work together on the Orfeo label are testimony to his considerable
conducting talent, especially in notably demanding Verdi arias where he
accompanies with great insight and subtlety, coaxing from the orchestra
playing of impressive expression, flexibility and precision.
As he turns 80, Fischer-Dieskau abounds with energy and an undiminished
passion for the enormous range of music he has loved and performed with
such command, and which he now hands down to the young students fortunate
enough to take lessons with him. In wishing him many happy returns, we must
salute his unique contribution to our experience and understanding of
music - an enrichment that is penetratingly summed up by Graham Johnson:
'If we try to imagine the world of song without Fischer-Dieskau, almost all
the achievements that have come after him would not have been possible
without the ground-base that allowed them to be launched. He gave us a new
model for Lieder singing, and whether people have agreed with or diverged
from his interpretations, that has been his greatest gift to the entire
post-war generation.'
Feature by Jon Tolansky
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